Mastering Career Transitions and Authentic Networking with Elaine Lou Cartas

Dusti Arab

Hello, everybody and welcome back to referral worthy. Today I am here with Elaine Lou who is an incredible business coach specializing in specializing and working with women of color and allies and actually personally working with them which is something that is oddly unique these days. So I you know, welcome thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. So you have such an interesting career story to me, and I would love for you to share that with listeners today.

Elaine Lou Cartas

Yeah, I’ve been fired three times I quit two jobs with no same things. I always like starting off with the failures and mistakes because I know so often we hear the success story. I’m like, Oh my gosh, it’s one of those people. So let’s start off with the mistakes and failures there. So when I graduated college around the same age Dusti Sorry to date you and me at the same time that graduated around the recession so difficult to find a job around that time and the first job I found being born and raised in California was working in Des Moines, Iowa, as a field organizer working in political campaigns. And I have done campaigns in Iowa, Indiana, Montana, New Mexico, Massachusetts, and what a field organizer does is I did 300 calls a day, which oh my god, I learned rejection really quickly. And the goal of intention was to get people in the office to volunteer to call voters to get out to vote. So thank God I’m no longer in politics but that was my job. And then after that, I became a political fundraiser because someone said, fundraising is a more glamorous version of field organizing. So try that. So I’ve raised millions for political campaigns and I just got so burnt out because in political campaigns, think of it like a short project live there. They need you to like campaign for three months, six months a year or two. So there’s fast turnover and projects to end at the same time. It gave me wonderful experiences to work with different personalities to build relationships. I basically had to start organizations and end it because campaigns and on purpose election right it ends. Sometimes you do have to work beyond Election Day because of debt that they may accumulate. And unfortunately, re elections happen. And the reason why I say unfortunately, that’s a different conversation is real elections happen for congressional members, so they’re constantly campaigning. So I wanted to get out. I actually hired my first career coach like at 22 because I was a director. 

Dusti  

To have the foresight though, to get coaching like that early.

Elaine Lou  

Well, coaching wasn’t even big. I was like, right, that’s what I need. I was like, in my therapists office, were my job. If I had to choose between therapy and coaching, you’re tight on money. Please go to a therapist, layman. You’ll receive this support from coaching to get your future goals if you have blocks. And there’s nothing wrong with that. So I was at my therapists office and I was like, I need goals to ask for a raise. I think I need coaching and my therapist literally Googled a coach for me and then I hired that coach. So Google SEO was my first interaction with it because it was 2020 12 2014 I forget the the early 2010s. And coaching wasn’t huge. I mean, there was Instagram but Instagram at the time was like pictures of pets and voice. Yeah, like what Instagram originally was. I missed those days. It’s not. It wasn’t like what it is now or you’re posting on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn. So hired my first coach, I was able to get the raise I want and similar to business You quickly learn I got the money I wanted but I’m not happy. Oh ask for more. Or I don’t want to be in this niche right. And I just realized I got the money I wanted but I hate this industry. So I started doing informational interviews kind of like target market research and business. I want to do like that comparison with career searching and business. It’s pretty much the same. I started networking with people then found my first like, six figure consulting job, like, and to this day, I tell people like Hey, I it was just one client, like eight to 10k a month. That was way better profit. I had way better profit margins then and to be transparent compared to my business now.

Dusti  

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I gotta I gotta stop you for a second here because I have I have questions. Okay. So you were unhappy in the gig that you thought had like all the shiny to it right. And from there, you started doing research to figure out like what you wanted to do?

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, I did. Think of informational interviews like Target Market conversations, right? So I put a list of people connected with people. And I was like, Well, if you want to do fundraising, try the nonprofit sector. And then I found like this hire, this can be college that hired meets to be a consultant, who then they hired me to be full time but what I want people to hear, I mean, referral worthy. It’s the relationships you built. It’s the in person Also fun fact, one of my donors when I work in political campaigns was Elon Musk. Who shit when Yeah, when? When he was in SpaceX, so I actually had lunch with him and his board of directors and we raised money for a congressional campaign I worked with, so he was one of my major donors. Yeah, I mean, maybe I could change that my messaging and marketing but it just doesn’t align anyways but I always like sharing that fun fact. And then at Pasadena City College Foundation, where I was there, I was at a fundraiser. So in six months, I raised $1 million for 200 scholarships. That’s right. Even though I have my business I still feel like that is actually I know that is still my proudest moment. But that didn’t come from, like posting all the time that came from relationship building like coffee, meetings, lunch, dinner going these country clubs. We did old school, direct mail, to our low end donors, like it was. It was such a great experience, the nonprofit sector as well as political sector. Like I said, I in the political campaigns, I started from the ground up and then closed it. So I it’s it felt like I always had small businesses and then fundraise in the nonprofit sector. I was able to make a million dollars in six months, and then they hired me full time. And then I felt the energy of being an employee. Yes, sorry. Stop me. You’re

Dusti  

fine. This is I mean, this is just, there’s so much good stuff. Here to me. Because like first of all, you started like you hit the ground running so young, like to be in a director level position at 22 is I mean, almost unheard of. There are very few stories I can point to even like written by, you know, written in books about people who have like scaled their careers that quickly, but also to have made these interesting, like not unrelated career jumps, like they definitely are very related to each other and I can see how you went from one of these things to the other, but to have that clarity and also, like I’m so curious, like, I would love to hear more about how you got those doors to open because as a woman of color, you don’t just end up at a board of directors table at SpaceX. Like I mean that that too, is like that’s something that is incredibly unique like, was it was it really just these one to one interactions?

Elaine Lou  

It’s conversations communication and political campaigns. It’s like a it’s like a hip hop that’s about to explode. It’s a lot of follow up with people right because the end dates Election Day, right? Like we’re recording this right now during an election. Year. So we know that the end date is election date, and that is the goal, and you need to raise X amount of money. And when it comes to fundraising, it’s a lot of follow up. How are you communicating with the donor, and it’s not even just the donor actually, people forget treat their administrative assistant or executive assistant really well, that are the gatekeepers. The team and the gatekeepers and I had a spreadsheet of and I also have like a CRM system, but I’ll be honest, I was really bad with that. We like we have someone for that but like, I had a spreadsheet to just like following people and making sure it’s not transactional. So even following up and what I mean following up mind you like this, these big CEOs were not the people’s I was people I was actually communicating with it was executive assistant. So I would make a note like, Oh, hey, Mary, how was your trip to Hawaii? Oh, that’s right. Well, I wanted to follow up the congressional member, just one see when there was time to connect to talk about ABC. When’s a good time, this time or this time? What I learned in political campaigns not giving an option to say no. So I use that in my business now. So when I schedule a call to connect with someone, that might be a connector a possible lead. Hey, what time are you free to connect? Are you free East Coast time on Monday, the 21st from three to five or Tuesday, four to six. I’m just I just want to give tips. Another thing is making sure you give them their timezone. So I know nowadays we have a scheduling links, I do two things. I give them dates and times based off their timezone and I give them the scheduling link. So there’s no option to say no and you’re not because what you want to do with decision making is help them make a choice. Also to create a safe space for people what I do nowadays because I am trauma informed. So yeah, I would just love to connect with you. If you have the capacity to I’m free these dates and times on this time zone. Here’s my scheduling and if you don’t want to connect, I also respect that too. So I’ve added that layer because I will be really transparent. I think all of us were like this. I mean, I was in my 20s I was very aggressive in scheduling meetings, closing deals. When I started my coaching business in 2017. I was pretty pushy and aggressive and and as people have seen now, consumers don’t like that. I don’t like that when I’m being sold to. I want that option to say no as well. Or to say I’m not interested.

Dusti  

Right. Well, and I think first of all, I mean, I think I would consider you driven but I have a really hard time seeing you as pushy, like in any circumstance like I’m sure you’ve learned and I definitely do appreciate that like,

Elaine Lou  

you like me now.

Dusti  

Okay, okay, I’ll trust you. But I love that I love that. I mean, first of all, like what a great tip. I mean, on all fronts, but also just the caring and empathy that goes into like giving people an out if the timing isn’t right, for whatever reason, because sometimes it’s not like and people remember how you made them feel.

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, I mean, there are times when you know, I’ll tell you what I did when I first started my coaching business and what I do now, but when clients have like, you know, I decided to work with another coach or another service provider right before like, oh, well, best of luck. If nothing works out, feel free to reach out like, Oh, that’s so disgusting, desperate energy right and instead now if I get an email, I actually congratulate them like congratulations on making an online choice like I’ll be rooting for you on the side.

Dusti  

Right and reinforcing their like their instincts and like whatever that looks like God that is such It’s so refreshing because that’s just not how we see it done so often. You know, it’s either it’s ghosting, or it’s passive aggressive or like, you know, and and I’ll I’ll be the first one to say that like for situations like it’s not very often these days where I’m in a situation where like, it’s me or somebody else, like, usually it’s like, it’s more like sequencing. I’m very expensive. So it’s like, Are they are they paying for this other thing, or are they paying for me? And like, I’m never gonna fault somebody that decision because if they landed there that the other thing makes more more sense as an investment right now, then it probably does. Like, that’s fine. That’s like I didn’t do anything wrong there.

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, well, what’s changed because I’m doing a lot more executive coaching, working with organizations and they are interviewing other people kind of like a job. So there is more follow up to that the difference and I don’t want to share this with your listeners, because maybe you work b2c, like you work with a client or maybe it’s a smaller business, right? The decision making tends to be faster talking directly to that, but when you’re working like I’m starting to get asked by Fortune 500 companies, there’s like layers of bureaucracy, right and decision making. So just know how you communicate to them is really important. So even when I follow up, like hey, I just want to follow up on the proposal. Do you have any questions? And I also give them an out so doesn’t make them feel comfortable? And if you no longer want to move forward? That’s okay. Just let me know so I can honor both your time and mine. Actually, don’t just do that with businesses. I do that with clients as well. I have noticed I’m curious if you noticed this too. Dusti is nowadays in 2024 when recording this and comparison to 2020 2020 was just like a different beast as well. Even 2017 People are taking more time to decide if they want to work with me or not. And even to my other clients that I work with, has nothing to do with me. And me trying to close in at a shorter time span. It’s just we are more conscious consumers, not just because of what has happened in the coaching industry with a lack of trust because I think there is a trust depletion that’s happening. But there’s also this mixed layer of variables like it’s an election year. The economy and life situations as well.

Dusti  

Absolutely. So I would say that especially in b2c, that is 100% What I am seeing across the board for all of my clients like the for larger purchases, the like the buying decision like that decision just does take more time most of the time right now. And I would say like, That’s especially true for my people who are like 500k to 5 million. So like, usually they have like lists that have been like properly primed and they’ve been exposed to them for longer. So like even in a launch if it feels like I’m getting early yeses. I know that that’s not actually true. Like those people have been really like really well taken care of by those companies, which is why they’re the size that they are. And I mean and I work particularly with, like personality driven businesses that are primarily b2c. That said, when I’m looking at like my my roster, my clients, for the most part, if somebody calls me they’re ready to hire. And usually it’s because they have like a particular campaign in mind, but I think that’s also because I’m in like, a really, really specific little tiny niche. So like, yeah, so it it depends, but I definitely see a lot of what you’re seeing there as well.

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, and, and what what’s important to here is just that relationships at the touch points I also want to give your listeners like a little tip that I’ve been doing lately and it’s actually lead to sales calls and clients but So LinkedIn is bigger for me because I am working with companies as well, as well as like director level and above like C suite leaders. And then there’s also small business owners, but LinkedIn has been huge for me. And I also have two LinkedIn learning courses. So I worked with LinkedIn having two courses that’s that’s already garnered like about 2000 students, 51 different countries, so I’m getting a lot more followers. So what I’m doing is when people follow me because they’re like heads of HR, they’re, they’re actually pretty big up there and their title so I’d be like, hey, Dusti like I see you live in the PNW area. I was just there last year. Saw you just followed me. I’m excited to stay connected. I’m just curious. I always love knowing how did you find me? So it’s coming from his place of curiosity, but also you would appreciate this being a marketing strategist like I actually want to know how people are finding me so I know it’s working. Right opens up a conversation with surely I took your course. I want to work with you. Or like seeing where the conversation goes some sometimes it doesn’t go into sales call but it goes into since you loved my course so much. I have my own podcast it’s called WC and allies business courriel talk or since you love ABA, if I noticed they’re saying things like I love the post, you know what I have a newsletter. Like here’s my link, just having the conversation conversations. Getting to genuinely be curious about someone as opposed to trying to ask for marriage on the first DM

Dusti  

a min. K.

Elaine Lou  

It’s exactly what I did in fundraising. I close 25 100k donations because I was just curious. It was great. I felt like I was Oprah having like lunch paid for by my work well, and

Dusti  

it was donation. And even in this conversation, it does feel like that like I can tell you’ve been like you have a podcast and you’ve been doing this for a long time because it’s so like it’s so natural. And you’re so focused on giving listeners like us this use this use this. These are the things that are going to make a difference for you especially like I mean, always, but especially at these early stages. Like if you’re not booked up, you have the time to have all of those conversations like you can really like I’m helping a friend who’s starting a law firm right now usually I don’t work with baby business owners, however like he’s a friend,

Elaine Lou  

They’re fun.

Dusti  

Oh my god, I’m having so much fun. It’s like it’s such a fun project. But I also know that for me, he is still a perfect fit client for me because he’s going to be bringing over so much of his own clientele. It’s going to be all referrals. So we are like building up his like his systems in advance to be able to handle all the conversations he’s going to be having over the next like three months. And that’s the entire marketing plan. That’s the entire focus it is only coffee chats and emails. That’s it

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, that’s that’s literally it and two questions that are really powerful. That I find are maybe a couple of questions when doing the networking whether their target market research, like in your business or informational interviews looking for a job is, hey, I would love to get your feedback. What would you want to get advice from me? Or what type of services would you want? For me? I actually want to start my own business. Like I didn’t know it was going to be career coaching and use some form of coaching. So I started asking my friends like what would you hire me for? And I lost like 30 pounds. So some of my friends said, Actually, I’d hire you to be like my personal trainer or health fitness coach. And even though yes, they gave me that feedback, like I’m like I just I just really love working out. I don’t want to coach anyone when it comes to that. So what I want to share with people is that even though you’re getting qualitative data information, to actually make sure you check in intuitively to see if it’s aligned to you. So don’t just do it because someone tells you to do it. That piece and then the second piece is Do you know one or two people you can connect to me with then that increases and then a third tip, sorry, this this is what got me my six figure contract and my first business is after I’m in conversation with them, I would email them Hey, what’s your address? I want to send you a handwritten thank you card. So I will do a handwritten thank you card. This is my fundraising days guys. handwritten thank you card Dusti It was so great connecting with you. I just loved hearing you like balance work, motherhood, podcasting, you just do it all because of the time he gave me with your insight and feedback. Here’s a $5 Starbucks card.

Dusti  

And I never forget the people who sent me fucking $5 Starbucks gift cards ever.

Elaine Lou  

And it’s actually and the handwritten card because that’s so rare because our inboxes are filled. Right? You’re like Elaine, how can I get someone’s address and ask them like literally ask them even though you tell them we’re going to send them something they’re not going to believe you because it’s so rare. But because you sent that that sends out and what I was doing that that actually led them like oh my gosh, I remember I told you I was going to connect you with John. Let me send the email intro right now. Like they’ll text me thank you so much for the card and the $5 I’m going to connect you that’s how you could start growing but so I know I talked about that with that business, but even in my business, so I got asked to coach at a conference and one of the people I met and I could share this publicly because she has that she was an HR director for another company. She couldn’t tell me what company she was applying for, but I helped her get the job she is now the VP of Starbucks doing di

Dusti  

Oh my fucking god. Yeah. For both of you. And, and Starbucks

Elaine Lou  

is like half a million employees right? So I didn’t know that she got this job. I just messaged her. I’m like, hey, you know you talked so much about psychological safety. I just want to interview for my podcast. She’s like, Sure. And can you just share people with my new title then? And I’m like, oh my god, congrats. Like I had no idea until I asked her to be my podcast. I just knew there was gonna be a lot of value just having her in my podcast. I had no, I was not attached to anything. We did the interview. A week later she asked me can you actually moderate a panel with me at this HR retail conference in LA? I’m like, Oh my gosh. Yes. It’s 200 HR executives, for big companies like zoomies, Paxson glossier Five Below like really big companies. So I went I got an I spoke to the event organizer. We actually want you to moderate another panel. So I didn’t like speak in terms of sharing expertise. I moderated two panels. And that led me to five leads. That led me to other speaking opportunities, and I will share this I will be vulnerable, just to help people figure out what type of events to go to. The week before I was at Podcast Movement, another conference and I had to you. This is a really hard question to ask, but it’s important to ask, did I really get an ROI? And when I reflect on this to conferences, podcasts, it was great being with my friends, but did I get an ROI? I didn’t. I’m sure it was in my backyard in LA a commuted but I still spent money on food. I spent money on parking because it’s LA. Right? Did I get an ROI going to HR retail profit to speak? Yes. So what does that tell me? I need it. I need to go to more like HR conferences and events. And I think what made it unique is I was the only coach so I wasn’t like competing. I was the right coach. So when you’re thinking about where can you be? It’s not where can other people who are similar to me be? I mean, mind you, how about us friendships, that’s very important to have that group. But in terms of like, where are your ideal clients? Maybe they’re at a chamber of commerce. And or maybe, maybe there’s somewhere or you just never know. You just never know but being around them and I will say I got sidetracked. I’ll be transparent because I got into the coaching business. 2017 I thought everything had to be online. So I kind of like forgot my fundraising political roots. And I have brought that back since 2020. I had a feeling that everyone was going to be burnt out with a screen. So I started doing the relationships I mean, I did in person events before 2020 Everything went virtual and then I went to two retreats in person but the relationship and connecting not saying online isn’t important it is but don’t forget the relationships. Oh another tip so I’m just like dropping gems. I hope you’re okay with that. Dusti

Dusti  

is so okay with that.

Elaine Lou  

When I am with people in person, depending on what platform they use, so like Podcast Movement, for example, it was more so Instagram. When I was HR Rubin’s it was more so LinkedIn. So let’s say we connect at Podcast Movement. Hey Dusti Like it was so great connecting with you at this session. I’m excited to listen to your podcast. I’m happy to stay connected. I’ll let you know when I’m at p and W next time. When I meet someone after I connect with them in person. I will message them what we talked about but it’s personal. So then, when I’m back home, I look through the messages I sent so I know who I need to follow up with because I’ll remember what we talked about. It’s not so much business. Do you know what I mean? It’s like, Hey, I heard you’re looking for a business coach. Like let’s connect. It’s like it’s just something personal. Because you don’t want to ask for marriage on the first date. The goal for the first date is ask for a second date. People forget about that. Yes, they do not ask marriage for the first date. The goal is a second date. So my goal is a second date with every not everyone but the people I feel called to connect with. And then from there, yeah, I’m still following up with people. Okay,

Dusti  

so I have a follow up question around part of how you have shifted back into like, more of this b2c area because like you really are working with a lot more executives and things like that right now. So even though like you’ve been in both worlds before, like, you know, b2b and b2c to at least a certain extent, how has like what were like the first steps you took once you decided that that was a direction that you wanted to go in? Going

Elaine Lou  

towards b2b or b2c or both?

Dusti  

Yeah, so I know that something that I actually get asked fairly frequently is like, either How do I get into corporate work which, again, I tell everybody I’m not sure girl for that because the most corporate job I’ve ever had was in cannabis and let’s be real. Is it corporate? It’s not just like familiarity with like, how to get those internal gigs, but also how to connect with folks who are, you know, like executives, and like, when you feel like you are in a place where you can support at that level?

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, so actually, I’m gonna answer it for both whether it’s b2c or b2b, and this comes from my old fundraising days. As well, but it applies to here because like I said earlier, I start organizations from $0 to like millions and different political campaigns. So I also want to warn you as I’m gonna give you advice, this sounds so simple and easy. But the reason why people don’t do it, is because of the itty bitty shitty committee. In your head that thinks you need more and you’re not enough. So first, there needs to be healing on being enough being able to connect and reach out I am not your girl for that you could go find the right therapist. Also, please date multiple people in terms of therapists to find the right one because so often I hear from people I tried therapy didn’t work. I was like,

Dusti  

No, you just didn’t have the right you didn’t find the right person.

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, exactly. So anyways, um, back to basics. So where are your professional contacts? Are they on your Gmail? Hopefully you don’t use Hotmail. Because that’s so old school I do to people that have Hotmail, so I apologize. 

Dusti  

Yeah, no Hotmail, no Yahoo

Elaine Lou  

boomers, so they check your email or their, your LinkedIn or whatever, wherever your professional contacts are. Don’t worry if they’re not all centralized. And not even kidding create, start creating a list and to make it less anxiety provoking, play music on the background, drink something smoke something whatever is going to make you feel comfortable. I am not trying to influence that but if you just know that’s there, maybe you just want to light a candle, whatever it is. So A through Z put a list together and there’s two types of people you want to put in there. One is like a possible ideal client. The goal of this is not to try to convert them, it’s to understand what they need. It’s actually doing target market research to gather qualitative data, so you understand how you could position yourself and so people that do know you can give you that messaging. So put people that are an ideal client. And the second type of person to look for are those connectors like they know everybody like they’re your little popular person at the Chamber of Commerce that just knows everybody that connects you with everyone. So then reach out to them hey, I would love to schedule like a quick five to 10 minute or sorry, reality’s not gonna be five minutes. I would love to schedule a quick 20 minute conversation with you. I know we, we know each other it could be we know each other from college. I know that we’ve worked on this project together before here, or I know that you’re friends with so and so I’d love to connect with you because I want to do more coaching. Do executive coaching for Fortune 500 companies, whatever it is, I’m free this date or time once again, give them time zone and then when you get to them. Hey, I want to hear like let them know what you want to do, why you want to do it. And let’s say it is working with like corporations and let’s say it is what I’m doing executive coaching. Well, I would love to get your feedback. What are the top three challenges you you hear as being in C suite? What solutions do you wish you had? And then this is where you get to play with things. I’m considering doing this my coaching, what are your thoughts? And because you know me in a different realm, or a different part of my life? How would you describe me? And then the 15 or one or two people that you could connect me with the reason why your I know that there’s surveys I know people

Dusti  

Surveys will never be as effective like

Elaine Lou  

the reason yeah, the reason why I say conversations are important is you are receiving words and data you could follow up now mind you do not try to be academic and to each question one by one like let it flow, let it have a conversation. And you will gather there. My my nieces woman of color and allies. I’m just being transparent here is I actually started off like I coach everybody, right? And then I noticed that it was more women of color. coming to me and during my firt like each sales call I do to this day to like almost seven years from my first year. What made you want to do this call with me? And the feedback I got because you’re a woman of color. And when I had that, like seven years ago and that was a common theme I kept hearing was like, Well, why don’t I just own it and just do it. God

Dusti  

that’s so important. Like when you hear things over and over and over again. Write that down that is important information like we have to be looking for those patterns. You

Elaine Lou  

need to use the words and I remember in 2020 or 2021 when coaching was like a negative word like I’m not a coach, I am a guide. I am a mentor. I didn’t change I see your eyes rolling to the other side of the world but I didn’t change my title because here’s the reality. What are people searching for? Like when are you look for a plumber and your toilet is like flooding your place. You type in plumber, but you’re not like pipe cleaner drainage like you you type what you’re looking for and I knew people were typing woman of color coach and actually some people were typing WC coach in Instagram. And what was interesting is I was in I was looking for places in Santa Barbara to stay for at a hotel. And it kind of popped in my mind. Wait, if people are looking for hotels, people are probably looking for me and Google. So Google SEO has been also huge for me. I do a lot with organic SEO on my website. And that’s referrals are and you’ll still bring it about 66% of my business but 33% comes from Google SEO. And that’s what another thing I want to share with your listeners like keeping track of where you’re coming from like it’s important to look at the data because it’s so easy to be online and get sidetracked and like Wait no I need to be on tick tock like Wait, hold on. Are your clients even there are no yeah, that’s how I started I put a list together and talked to people and then that gave me my first couple of clients and then it grew from there. Marketing can’t solve your service. You need to have an amazing service but by having an amazing service and results that will bring you more referrals.

Dusti  

Okay, obviously that’s going to be the audio grant for this episode. Boom, there’s the mic. We dropped it. It was excellent. Okay, Elaine, I am like so I don’t want to end this interview. You’re so fantastic.

Elaine Lou  

I know. Sorry. Talked a lot.

Dusti  

Oh my god never, ever apologize when you’re on a fucking roll. So I do want to respect your time and ask you the final question that I asked all of our guests which is what makes a business referral worthy to you?

Elaine Lou  

I said it earlier so I kind of teased it. It’s have the best service. And if you’re like a laneway or product, right? If you’re a product based business, how to have the best service or product. Don’t be scared to ask your clients not during a session with them respect their time, but even like hey I really care about my clients. Can we just schedule a 30 minute call, not one of your sessions. I want to get your feedback and just asking them Hey, like what have you liked about what I’ve taught? What do you wish you saw more of? How would you describe me if you did refer me to someone I can’t emphasize enough having quality, a quality service or product and I say this because right now in the online space, having beautiful marketing not saying marketing is not important. By the way. I’m not denouncing like obviously Dusties work marketing is really important. But having beautiful marketing messaging brand imaging. People are smarter. They just know like just because it’s all nice. People know that if they look under the hood that to be cautious about it. Hmm marketing will bring you like a sales call right? Marketing can bring you a client but to continuously be referral worthy, your service and product needs to be amazing.

Dusti  

Oh my god, Elaine, if people want to learn more about you and how to work with you. Where can we find you?

Elaine Lou  

Yeah, so come on to my website at Elainelou.com. And I also have my own podcast so you can listen at WC and allies, business and career real talk. So Dusti Thank you so much for having me.

Dusti  

Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining Hope y’all listen I hope you all enjoyed listening to this one.